tv Face the Nation CBS September 22, 2014 2:00am-2:31am PDT
welcome back to face nation. we are joined by jane harman now at the woodrow wilson senator, former senator joe lieberman who is heading up a new anti-terrorism group called the counter extremism project, cbs contributor mike mor mohr reall, formerly number 2 at the cia along with robert kagan of the brookings institution. welcome, well, samantha power says that other nations have agreed to participate in air strikes into syria. any guesses as to who that would be and i would take that as good news in a week when there hasn't been much, jane. >> welshes france is one. the uae is two and i think some other groups in the neighborhood would be very welcome there, but the challenge is, who would be on the ground? that is the
murky piece of this, as you covered in the last segment with dianne feinsten and mike rogers, there are several groups on the ground that could harm us, and if the al nusra group or part of a corson group affiliated with the al qaeda group mixed with yemen and i know this is complicated that bowp could harm the u.s. even sooner than isil. so we have to be very careful on the ground and we need muslim bootsma on the ground and i haven't seen anybody sign up yet. >> and i would just -- i think the, said they would only g go into iraq. >> that's true. >> but otherwise i think -- >> well syria is a harder problem, and if we are going to push back isil by air, somebody has to hold the ground and we are training up some moderate syrians, but that is a long, slow process. >> schieffer: yes.
and you are absolutely right who are going to be the troops that go in on the ground? >> let me just go back to the air for a moment because it is about 11 days since the president went before the nation, essentially dechaired war against isis, i thought it was an excellent speech, said he would go into syria to follow them to their havens. i think it is very important that we strike isis from the air in sir i can't quickly, because in the midst of all the conversation about will there be ground troops or not i think people in the region and maybe elsewhere are beginning to question whether there will be american follow through on the speech that the president made. so it will be grade great to have allies with us when we strike the terrorists in syria, but it is not worth waiting much longer. i hope those air strikes come against isis and syria very soon. >> and, bob, it is very important that the countries who join us that some of those be arab countries, and i think jane is right, we are going to see that and the reason it is important is so that we don't
play to the isis and al us in are a narrative it is christians killing muslim. it is very important to have the muslim countries with us. >> schieffer: bob, the press keeps talking about the things, i mean, i am quoting as critics the things we are not going to do and you hear me ask samantha power about that. what concerns me, and i think what concerns some critics is that he is diluting his message when he says what we are not going to do. >> part of the problem is he is diluting the mental but the bigger problem is that they are building their strategy backwards from what they don't want to do. if we have decided that isis or these other groups are vital threats to the united states, you don't usually deal with vital threats to the united states by first listing all the things you are not going to do to go after them. we have had senior military advisors, generals, chosen by president obama who have said, who have made it clear they
believe there has to be some u.s. military presence on the ground to make these operations work, but we see a president who is saying, that is not going to happen and i think that, you know,, the biggest problem is a strategy that can actually have some successful success of working. >> but the strategy needs a soft power piece and that's why owe is what going to do on monday is critical. our narrative our counter narrative not just ours but the 40 nation in nation ms. the coalition against isil is what is going to win the day. the pragmatic sunnis for the moments are supporting isil because there is no real alternative maybe the new government in iraq will be that alternative, maybe something in syria will be that alternative but we have to woo those folks back if we don't win the argument, we are never, we, the coalition of 40, are never going to prevail against -- >> schieffer: that is exactly -- >> thank, the counter extremism project will be a private, nonprofit international action
and policy group which essentially is saying the greatest threat to our security, world security today comes from extremism, and most of it today is from islamic extremism, terrorism, violence, the government obviously have to lead but i think there is a role for people in private life, and we are going to do three things, mainly. one, create a database of these terrorist groups and who is supporting them. their financial support. second he, we are going to work to break that financial support. for instance, if you are a company, illegally buying oil from isil or isis, we are going to call you out and put pressure on you to stop, and the third really important, and we are building support from leaders in the muslim world for this, there needs to be a well financed counter narrative to the extremist ideology that is drawing more and more young disaffected muslims into this
terrible violent lifestyle, it is very clear, everywhere the extremists go, including isis, the people, the muslims on the ground are terrified and a lot of them are leaving. they don't want this. he is unpopular. but if the rest of the world sits back and doesn't provide a counter narrative to this violence, they will leave and the extremists with all their brutality will dominate more and more of the world. we can't let that happen. >> schieffer: bob, you were just about to say. >> first of all that is critically important, and i am really glad senator lieberman is taking this task on, it is important and of course soft power is important but we are kidding ourselves if we don't understand that at the end of the day the people we are fighting about don't care about soft power, they don't care about the international economy, they are using force to accomplish their objectives, i think in america these days, we have somehow told ourselves that there are a lot of ways of dealing with these problems other than hard power, vladimir putin cares about hard power,
isis cares about hard power and in order even to accomplish these soft power objectives, you have to prove that you are also willing to fight them on the ground and defeat them. that's how you will get allies. >> so two more things on the hard power side. one is i agree 100 percent with jane we have to find a way to get troops on the ground guiding and assisting the moderate opposition in syria, that is the only way they are going to be effective it has to be the u.s. or it has to be other countries, hopefully arab countries but somebody has to do that, and over the longer term there has to be a capacity building program in all of these countries that face islamic extremists and in that capacity building program has to focus on intelligence, has to focus on law enforcement, has to focus on military and has to focus on rule of law. >> schieffer: what do we do about assad? you know, the president said and he is right, he is our enemy. he is the reason that syria is in the terrible shape it is in.
syria is in large areas ungoverned today, which is why a group like corazon, which is mostly al qaeda forward deployment has gone there. so i don't think there can be -- we can both fight isis and fight assad at the same time, and that's what i think -- >> schieffer:. >> and that's what we should do? >> i think that's exactly what we should do. >> schieffer: we should attack assad? >> yes, we should attack assad and attack isis and -- >> what we can do in syria which is as we take strikes against isis in syria we can also do what we should have been doing over the past few careers which is taking down assad's air force, which he is using to commit terrible humanitarian disasters and crater his runways and keep his air from flying and that is something the saudis are asking us to do. >> he already with his air force is attacking the nonisil groups on the ground. i mean isil is helping him for the moment. we have to be careful as we get
into syria that we are not empowering the wrong groups and end up empowering him, you need to remember he used chemical weapons on his own people, something unprecedented since the early eighties when iraq did this on iran and iran hasn't forgotten that, and i don't -- i think we should continue to view him as a moral outlaw and in these ungoverned parts of syria, we do have a challenge, because there is no effective governance on the ground, it is ungoverned territory, one more point on soft power, though. let's understand these messages that isil is putting out which unfortunately are enhanced by running them on media. i wish the western media would not amplify them. but at any rate, they are putting out effective soft power messages and recruiting all of these psychopaths to their cause, that's who the foreign fighters are, there are some through true believers in assad and these sunni pragmatists but the bottom line is the soft power that isil uses is how isil is growing its ranks.
>> senator lieberman is absolutely right. assad is the key problem here, supported by iran and supported by russia. i would fully support going after him and his leadership team aggressively, but i don't want to do it in a way that degrades the syrian military, the syrian security service and syrian intelligence service because they need to be able to bring stability to that country when saddam, when assad does go. so we need to get rid of assad but do it in a way that keeps -- that keeps the ability to hold that country together in place so we don't end up with iraq or don't end up with a libya. >> wrong the pilots who are dropping bombs on civilian buildings are the ones to pull syria together after assad leaves. >> schieffer: how do you do that, though, mike? you are saying, get assad but leigh his army in place? >> i think we have to come to the conclusion that i think the senator has come to and everybody at this table agrees he is the primary problem so
let's figure out a way of removing him from the battlefield. >> yes. he will try to act as if he is our ally now because we have the same enemy in isis, but as others have said sometimes the enemy of your enemy is still your enemy and assad is the enemy here. i think, i mean, remember last year after the bread line and the chemical weapons, the president was going to strike assad's military structures from the air, pulled back on it as we know. we are going to go into syria now with air power against isis, there is no reason why we can't selectively use that air power against assad and that will empower the people of syria, particularly the moderate opposition that we are now going to give arms to. >> jane doesn't seem quite as -- >> i am not as robustly certain that we have this mission in focus. i don't think obama's strategy yet includes going after assad, it certainly includes not working with him. i think these terror groups, again, it is complicated, it is
not just isil, it is al mustra, corazon, these other groups, a yemen in bomb group could hurt us faster with foreign fighters and passports, remember the rest of the world, iran, the deadline for the agreement is coming up, it is a very serious issue in the middle east, which deserves massive focus, russia and ukraine, these are countries with nuclear capability or nuclear weapons and an arms place in the middle east right now in the middle of all of this would be catastrophic. >> what would russia do if we just declared war on assad and went after him? after all, syria is their client state. i mean -- >> i think we need to have a conversation with the russians that probably will not go anywhere but we need have a conversation that says, these islamic extremists in iraq and syria are as great a threat to you had lad as they are to us because they are going to go up
into the caucuses and address problems there. it is a nightmare for russia. >> i agree with mike on that but russia obviously does not see assad as an enemy as we do. he is their client, he is their agent, and i don't think you are going to be able to convince them to -- here is the problem. when putin went and took crimea, i don't think he asked what are the americans going to do in response? i am afraid he decided they are in the going to do anything and the europeans are not going to do anything. i think this is the case where america has to show with our allies, particularly in the arab world we are ready to act, and that action will create a reality that will not only bring others to our side but will make it harder for russia to respond. what are they going to do? >> schieffer: what do you think the american people are so disenchanted right now with the president's handling of all of this. the latest poll i saw showed 37 percent approve of the president's handling of foreign
policy. why is that that way and can the president turn that around? >> well, he just got a bipartisan majority in each house of congress for the request to arm andl moderate syrians in saudi arabia. and he just built a 40 nation coalition to support them. he is going to be at the u . in this week i think a new poll is needed but i would make one last point. congress. the new -- the policy at the moment is don't ask, just tell, congress is ducking this whole thing, and i think that is totally irresponsible. the american people's voice is congress, there needs to be a special session before or after the election and aarqúreview ofe strategy is. >> i am sorry, that is a really good point. i think the public began to lose confidence in the president on foreign policy because they didn't feel he was leading and for a while they were happy with that because they wanted to stay
out of problems, but then russia, isis, iraq, the whole combination has scared people. now i thought the president's speech to the nation about a week and a half ago was going to turn that around and i am afraid it didn't because there were too many of what you talked about before. and not just what we are going to do to protect you, mr. and mrs. america, but here is what we are not going to do, and i don't think that was particularly reassuring to the american people, and it was reassuring to our enemies over there. so that's why i say, mr. president, order the u.s. air force to begin striking isis at least in syria right now and stop saying what we are not going to do. let the enemy worry about that. >> schieffer: okay. >> stimpson had a great line the president can't ask the american people to tell them advance if they would follow him if he decides to lead. >> schieffer: i think we are going to let it stop right there. we will be right back. i thank all of you very much.
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number but they are going to come out in the future with some estimates. but i think there is no doubt this is huge problem, it is daunting, but there are some encouraging signs, because obviously this is the biggest international effort we have ever seen for an outbreak, and in addition to understanding that you have to supply people with hospitals, with training, with person nell, personnel there is the realization you need t to build trust .. and tht has been one of the big problems here because people have been running away from healthcare. so for example, i spoke last night to dr. paul farmer the head of partners in health they met with the president of liberia last week with the idea of for the very first time in liberia and in western africa making modern medicine available so that people actually run towards healthcare rather than running away from it, and paul said to me, whenh ebola ever collidedzh@mi with mn medicine? never. >> schieffer: dr. sharpener,
the president as we all know, assigned 3,000 u.s. military personnel to deploy to africa in this fight. how much impact do you think this is going to have? >> obviously, it is going to help some, but how far do you think this will go? will we need to do more? >> well, this is a big problem, and perhaps we will need to do more, but this is an important beginning, the military is going to go in there and put in field hospitals, mass units, if you will, and do an awful lot of training of locals. don't give a man a fish, teach them to fish, and we have to leave that infrastructure in place. we are going to have to organize medical care just as john has said. it is very important for two reasons. not just the humanitarian reason, we want to take care of these very sick people but also we need to get those stick people out of homes. that is the public health reason, because when they are cared for by people at home,
their family members, that is where transmission occurs, and the next cases occur. >> schieffer: what do you think, dr. lapook? i mean, obviously, this would not be the assignment i think most people in our military would hope to get. this is a very dangerous assignment. what do you see as the challenges for these people that are going to be going there? >> well, i think it must be daunting to think about going over there. they are not going to have direct contact with patients and i think that is very important, because there have been a lot of misinformation around here. it is not airborne you don't get it like you get the flu. you have to have direct contact with fluids, but i think it is such an important thing because it is not only affecting the people directly who have ebola but as dan kelley who is a doctor i spoke to in sierra leone, ebola kills healthcare systems, think about it all the people who are staying at home with fever, with gastroenter try advertise and have malaria they are afraid to go to the hospital so they end up dying at home, so
this is such a where huge problem and i think the world is understandably and correctly reacting to it in a massive way .. >> dr. schaffner we have been talking about how trust is such an important part of this, and i noted that yesterday some health workers were attacked while trying to bury ebola victims. we are starting from ground on this. how do we do that? to convince people that our people are going to be there to help? >> we are going have to just keep on doing the right things and we need to communicate more effectively with the public. without the public's trust and cooperation the epidemic will continue no matter how much medical care we provide. so we need to communicate clearly and compassionately with folks in ways that they understand. >> schieffer: i notice. >> i saw a remarkable video dan kelley showed me from sierra leone and there is a woman
carrying a think, are you afraid if you go to the hospital they will inject you with ebola to give it to you? and she said, well, we hear a lot of things, i don't know what to think. imagine that she -- there actually was a possibility in her mind that doctors were giving the people ebola. so that's what we are up against. >> schieffer: dr. schaffner, any final word? >> this is a big start. it is an international effort. it is terribly important, it is impacting the economies of these countries. this is something we need to do, and i think we ought to be proud that we are sending a group of military experts there to help out. >> schieffer: all right. well i want to thank you both for being with us, and we will be right back. >>
>> schieffer: finally today, if this week showed us anything, it was that when one thing goes wrong, everything seems to go wrong. so to top off a week when things got more tangled up than ever, that guy jumped the white house fence, ran across the lawn, opened the front door and actually got in to the white house. there is a big investigation underway to correct the problem
and i am always reluctant to offer advice, but at our house the last thing we do before we turn out the lights is lock the door. just a tip, but it has worked for us. just a tip, but it has worked for us. we will see you next week.ú÷ face the nation. >> from capital one. redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac - with no limits. so every time you use it, you're not just shopping for goods. you're shopping for something great. learn more at buypowercard.com
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